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	<title>Comments on: Corporations as Uber-Citizens</title>
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	<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/</link>
	<description>Technology, Media, and Popular Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:19:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: mason</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3514</link>
		<dc:creator>mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 18:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3514</guid>
		<description>Same with me! &quot;Existential Terror.&quot; You got it Yoseph. I&#039;ve had it most of my life. But a little existential terror is good for us. We need to examine the networks in which we exist today and recognise some of the limits dwelling therein place upon our existence, our very capacity to be.
http://blog.ulisesmejias.com/about/

We don&#039;t necessarily need &quot;Power,&quot;  just a little Strength you know ;-) a little Endurance. A little Joy really helps too, but you know that already. All we need to do is keep our heads and hearts. The rest flows naturally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmGt2U-xTE

The Hot 5 and Hot 7 Sessions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Same with me! &#8220;Existential Terror.&#8221; You got it Yoseph. I&#8217;ve had it most of my life. But a little existential terror is good for us. We need to examine the networks in which we exist today and recognise some of the limits dwelling therein place upon our existence, our very capacity to be.<br />
<a href="http://blog.ulisesmejias.com/about/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.ulisesmejias.com/about/</a></p>
<p>We don&#8217;t necessarily need &#8220;Power,&#8221;  just a little Strength you know <img src='http://rushkoff.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  a little Endurance. A little Joy really helps too, but you know that already. All we need to do is keep our heads and hearts. The rest flows naturally.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmGt2U-xTE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksmGt2U-xTE</a></p>
<p>The Hot 5 and Hot 7 Sessions!</p>
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		<title>By: Yoseph Leib</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3468</link>
		<dc:creator>Yoseph Leib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3468</guid>
		<description>As if to say: I personally, depend so much on the governments where I am, I honestly can&#039;t imagine what it could mean to do what they do myself (ourself) from scratch, even though attempting to do that has been the model i&#039;ve tried to live by for ever since I was in high school.  At this stage of my life, it&#039;s so utterly compelling to me, the fantasy that I (or somebody) could easier use the structures that have already been built to the positive ends we appreciate and aspire too, rather than exhaust ourselves (myself) trying to build better parrallel machines from scratch, machines that, as noted above, could be smashed easily by the larger monster before they&#039;re large enough to supplant, or even appear to threaten it.

It&#039;s really a bit of an existentially terrifying position, and gosh Doug, I do appreciate trusting your sobriety about it, but is &quot;doing it ourselves&quot; fully an option? To what degree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As if to say: I personally, depend so much on the governments where I am, I honestly can&#8217;t imagine what it could mean to do what they do myself (ourself) from scratch, even though attempting to do that has been the model i&#8217;ve tried to live by for ever since I was in high school.  At this stage of my life, it&#8217;s so utterly compelling to me, the fantasy that I (or somebody) could easier use the structures that have already been built to the positive ends we appreciate and aspire too, rather than exhaust ourselves (myself) trying to build better parrallel machines from scratch, machines that, as noted above, could be smashed easily by the larger monster before they&#8217;re large enough to supplant, or even appear to threaten it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really a bit of an existentially terrifying position, and gosh Doug, I do appreciate trusting your sobriety about it, but is &#8220;doing it ourselves&#8221; fully an option? To what degree?</p>
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		<title>By: Yoseph Leib</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3467</link>
		<dc:creator>Yoseph Leib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3467</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a lot of great insight here, in the responses: What could it mean to &quot;do it ourselves?&quot; The limits, the incredibly frustrating limits, of what it feels like we can do independently, don&#039;t silence the question-problem: what can we do together, once we&#039;re so accustomed to relating to one another so cynically and distrustfully, and sensing that it&#039;s rightfully so? To the degree that we are (I am) still concerned about the limits of our (my) personal value creation capacity, and consequent lack of power, what can we do when we don&#039;t know what we can do at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of great insight here, in the responses: What could it mean to &#8220;do it ourselves?&#8221; The limits, the incredibly frustrating limits, of what it feels like we can do independently, don&#8217;t silence the question-problem: what can we do together, once we&#8217;re so accustomed to relating to one another so cynically and distrustfully, and sensing that it&#8217;s rightfully so? To the degree that we are (I am) still concerned about the limits of our (my) personal value creation capacity, and consequent lack of power, what can we do when we don&#8217;t know what we can do at all?</p>
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		<title>By: mason</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3456</link>
		<dc:creator>mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 13:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3456</guid>
		<description>Hey Otro Hey Ningún!

These recent observations have cleared away a massive obstacle to my thinking. &quot;This&quot; and &quot;Ourselves&quot; has been set free among the stars for now, but not forgotten. Logically, what remains is &quot;do.&quot;  You set about some lifting of &quot;do&quot; as well. Strangely, what you have achieved with &quot;this&quot; and &quot;ourselves,&quot; points me in a different (perhaps) direction for doing.  The way seems twofold: an individual ought work upon as much of life is before him or her as befits his or her immediate ability to effect the possible. Our ability is understood and made manifest by our work and it&#039;s achievements. In so far as we address ourselves with the neighbors and the galaxy, we have to be able to point to these things we are talking about and SEE them.

Very, very clear and appreciated NingúnOtro!

Lord save us from the killer app if some critical mass of humanity can not save us first. Or may the death of mass media be made manifest at a time propitious to the greatest good for the greatest number.

-mason</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Otro Hey Ningún!</p>
<p>These recent observations have cleared away a massive obstacle to my thinking. &#8220;This&#8221; and &#8220;Ourselves&#8221; has been set free among the stars for now, but not forgotten. Logically, what remains is &#8220;do.&#8221;  You set about some lifting of &#8220;do&#8221; as well. Strangely, what you have achieved with &#8220;this&#8221; and &#8220;ourselves,&#8221; points me in a different (perhaps) direction for doing.  The way seems twofold: an individual ought work upon as much of life is before him or her as befits his or her immediate ability to effect the possible. Our ability is understood and made manifest by our work and it&#8217;s achievements. In so far as we address ourselves with the neighbors and the galaxy, we have to be able to point to these things we are talking about and SEE them.</p>
<p>Very, very clear and appreciated NingúnOtro!</p>
<p>Lord save us from the killer app if some critical mass of humanity can not save us first. Or may the death of mass media be made manifest at a time propitious to the greatest good for the greatest number.</p>
<p>-mason</p>
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		<title>By: NingúnOtro</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3455</link>
		<dc:creator>NingúnOtro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3455</guid>
		<description>&quot;In short, I say screw ‘em. Let’s do this ourselves.&quot;

&quot;Yes we can&quot;... do this ourselves. It all depends on whether and which way we can agree, or fail to agree about what should mean &quot;this&quot; and what is to be understood by &quot;ourselves&quot;.

I mean to say... is &quot;this&quot; to be a one and single &quot;optimal strategy&quot; we should all agree to use before we start anything? Obviously, all will never agree, not even majority, so forget it if you understand it that way.

Similarly, &quot;ourselves&quot; is quite confusing as a terminology... all together is &quot;ourselves&quot;, but each on his own is &quot;ourselves&quot; too, and any combination of any number of citizens together, each combination of them on their own, but all/some of these combinations together... is &quot;ourselves&quot; too.

If we want to be able to achieve anything at all, we have to re-engineer the understanding we have/or have not about the nature of the problem at hand... in such a way that we can propose a path towards a possible solution that can be walked by any kind of citizen, for objective or subjective reasons that should be theirs and not necessarily shared with others.

The path, and the solution should be left open to individual/collective interpretation of priorities at all times. If the basic and limited logical and ethical framework behind the initiative is sound, then in the long run all will inevitably and most important voluntarily lead towards the solution we can all share, at the level of complexity we can manage.

And it will be the only viable solution, unknown and even unthinkable of today. Not to say that if you could imagine most of it today and organize a debate proposing it you would probably make yourself the laughing stock of the galaxy.

Don&#039;t fear the power of corporations...they are strategies, and no strategy exists that can&#039;t be countered if one knows what he wants.

Mass-media is dead... the killer application is only awaiting to be used for a right cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In short, I say screw ‘em. Let’s do this ourselves.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Yes we can&#8221;&#8230; do this ourselves. It all depends on whether and which way we can agree, or fail to agree about what should mean &#8220;this&#8221; and what is to be understood by &#8220;ourselves&#8221;.</p>
<p>I mean to say&#8230; is &#8220;this&#8221; to be a one and single &#8220;optimal strategy&#8221; we should all agree to use before we start anything? Obviously, all will never agree, not even majority, so forget it if you understand it that way.</p>
<p>Similarly, &#8220;ourselves&#8221; is quite confusing as a terminology&#8230; all together is &#8220;ourselves&#8221;, but each on his own is &#8220;ourselves&#8221; too, and any combination of any number of citizens together, each combination of them on their own, but all/some of these combinations together&#8230; is &#8220;ourselves&#8221; too.</p>
<p>If we want to be able to achieve anything at all, we have to re-engineer the understanding we have/or have not about the nature of the problem at hand&#8230; in such a way that we can propose a path towards a possible solution that can be walked by any kind of citizen, for objective or subjective reasons that should be theirs and not necessarily shared with others.</p>
<p>The path, and the solution should be left open to individual/collective interpretation of priorities at all times. If the basic and limited logical and ethical framework behind the initiative is sound, then in the long run all will inevitably and most important voluntarily lead towards the solution we can all share, at the level of complexity we can manage.</p>
<p>And it will be the only viable solution, unknown and even unthinkable of today. Not to say that if you could imagine most of it today and organize a debate proposing it you would probably make yourself the laughing stock of the galaxy.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t fear the power of corporations&#8230;they are strategies, and no strategy exists that can&#8217;t be countered if one knows what he wants.</p>
<p>Mass-media is dead&#8230; the killer application is only awaiting to be used for a right cause.</p>
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		<title>By: mason</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3451</link>
		<dc:creator>mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3451</guid>
		<description>@ Rob - Not my gift either. Very creative and darn funny. It left me anxious. I will offer that being anxious about the vid and the decision is useful. These things are neither the beginnings of the end nor the end of democracy. They are just evidence of the dying of something that had hardly been born.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Rob &#8211; Not my gift either. Very creative and darn funny. It left me anxious. I will offer that being anxious about the vid and the decision is useful. These things are neither the beginnings of the end nor the end of democracy. They are just evidence of the dying of something that had hardly been born.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3450</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3450</guid>
		<description>@mason - hand wringing is, of course, entirely at your discretion.  I just thought it was funny.  Economic rapping?  Far more creative than I might ever be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mason &#8211; hand wringing is, of course, entirely at your discretion.  I just thought it was funny.  Economic rapping?  Far more creative than I might ever be.</p>
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		<title>By: mason</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3449</link>
		<dc:creator>mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 02:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3449</guid>
		<description>Rob i appreciated the video throwdown between Keynes and Hayek at your site.  Maybe it&#039;s apples and oranges, but should i be wringing my hands about that video or is the 100 years war all good fun too? 

-mason</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob i appreciated the video throwdown between Keynes and Hayek at your site.  Maybe it&#8217;s apples and oranges, but should i be wringing my hands about that video or is the 100 years war all good fun too? </p>
<p>-mason</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 00:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>Sincerest apologies for my assumption of heavy-handedness vice technological kerfuffle.  The post still appears on my browser with &quot;awaiting moderation&quot; in italics.  Odd.

In brief, and not to re-write everything, I stated I thought Glenn Greenwald had the most even discussion of the court&#039;s decision.  Bascially, that you can&#039;t decide the constitutionality of something based on possible negative outcomes.  The possibility of undue corporate influence doesn&#039;t trump free speech.

And while corporate personhood strikes me as counter intuitive, personally, he also pointed out that if incorporated entities don&#039;t merit protection under the Bill of Rights, then there&#039;s nothing to prevent the government from ignoring the 4th amendment with regards to them, including non-profits, labor unions, etc.

It was a bad law that exempted media corporations, and in fact made it much more difficult for small grass roots groups to organize - as they&#039;re without an army of lawyers to get around the regs.

Ultimately though, all this did was free up advertising, and if I took anything from Coercion - and it may not be what you intended - it&#039;s that as wily and crafty as they may be, the effect of advertising is in our own hands.  So much of the hand-wringing/end of democracy stuff strikes me as overblown.

Cheers, and again, apologies for my poor assumptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sincerest apologies for my assumption of heavy-handedness vice technological kerfuffle.  The post still appears on my browser with &#8220;awaiting moderation&#8221; in italics.  Odd.</p>
<p>In brief, and not to re-write everything, I stated I thought Glenn Greenwald had the most even discussion of the court&#8217;s decision.  Bascially, that you can&#8217;t decide the constitutionality of something based on possible negative outcomes.  The possibility of undue corporate influence doesn&#8217;t trump free speech.</p>
<p>And while corporate personhood strikes me as counter intuitive, personally, he also pointed out that if incorporated entities don&#8217;t merit protection under the Bill of Rights, then there&#8217;s nothing to prevent the government from ignoring the 4th amendment with regards to them, including non-profits, labor unions, etc.</p>
<p>It was a bad law that exempted media corporations, and in fact made it much more difficult for small grass roots groups to organize &#8211; as they&#8217;re without an army of lawyers to get around the regs.</p>
<p>Ultimately though, all this did was free up advertising, and if I took anything from Coercion &#8211; and it may not be what you intended &#8211; it&#8217;s that as wily and crafty as they may be, the effect of advertising is in our own hands.  So much of the hand-wringing/end of democracy stuff strikes me as overblown.</p>
<p>Cheers, and again, apologies for my poor assumptions.</p>
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		<title>By: mason</title>
		<link>http://rushkoff.com/2010/01/22/corporations-as-uber-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-3443</link>
		<dc:creator>mason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:06:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rushkoff.com/?p=4080#comment-3443</guid>
		<description>Sometimes i don&#039;t know who to screw or with whom to do. Each one calls &#039;em or does &#039;em as each one can or may.  &quot;Shine your light. shine your light on me&quot; is one lament i pair with  &quot;Got to be an important person to be in here, honey
Got to have done some evil deed&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes i don&#8217;t know who to screw or with whom to do. Each one calls &#8216;em or does &#8216;em as each one can or may.  &#8220;Shine your light. shine your light on me&#8221; is one lament i pair with  &#8220;Got to be an important person to be in here, honey<br />
Got to have done some evil deed&#8221;</p>
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